To offer a counterpoint re: the Endangered Status, the Banggais do remain on the IUCN Redlist as “endangered” – http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/63572/0

It is quite possible that this species is in need of reevaluation. It is also possible that the global economic downturn may have reduced demand and allowed populations to recover a bit, and as we recover, we could see things get much worse. Or have captive breeders truly helped reduce demand as well? Or are the fish now being harvested from Lembah instead of the Banggais?

Lots of possibilities indeed, but the reproductive biology of this fish suggests that it will remain very vulnerable to over harvest, much more so than other marine species, given the relatively low fecundity.

well damn I didn’t know they hosted in anemones. Is it a real hosting like clowns (i.e. touching the tentacles and everything) or a hovering near by but not actually touching.

Extinction by aquarium trade? really, don’t even find them appealing.

“If Banggai cardinals were really that rare collectors would not be collecting and shipping them by the tens of thousands every week and they certainly wouldn’t cost $15-25 at the LFS.”

Yeah, I mean it’s like the buffalo in the 19th century. There were just far too many for them to ever become…oh wait.

I have a pair that have babies! I am going to try and start raising them.

I love this site and the fact that you at least bring up concerns about the natural reefs, but why are you always so reluctant to admit ANY responsibility on the part of the aquarium trade. Seriously, the statement “If Banggai cardinals were really that rare collectors would not be collecting and shipping them by the tens of thousands every week and they certainly wouldn’t cost $15-25 at the LFS” shows exactly the kind of ignorance and arrogance that endangers wild life and gives reef enthusiasts a bad name.

The comment above about the buffalo is spot on. There is not always a direct correlation between the market value of an animal product and the health or rarity of the species. Do some research on what has happened to the Atlantic cod as well.

Is it not possible that Lembeh Island is part of their natural range?

The issue of cheap cardinalfish is very much like peak oil. We’ll never run out of oil because as it becomes increasingly scarce, the price will become prohibitively expensive. Teh same thing with cardinals, as they become rarer in the wild, the price will shoot up and they will become harder and harder to find.

This has already happened with yellow tangs for which the aquarium trade is 100% responsible. In the past it was possible to buy any ole yellow tang for $10-20 regardless of size. Now they are much harder to find in Hawaii and they cost closer to $30 for tinies and up to $50 for medium size fish.

I don’t know that I can agree or support your viewpoint on this one Jake…or are you taking a devil’s advocate stance? The cardinals, when most populous, were $300 each at retail when introduced. Now they’re almost the cheapest they’ve ever been, and yet they’re on the IUCN Redlist as endangered?

Think about the Zebra Plecos, and you’ll have a better insight into the possible plight and possible future of the Banggai Cardinals. Localized populations. Low fecundity. High collection pressure. There’s a reason Brazil shut down exports of the species, and there’s a reason that Captive Bred Zebra Plecos now retail for as much as 3 times more than they ever did when they were “rare and new” and being wild collected.

Yellow Tangs aren’t necessarily a good analogy because they have high fecundity – a single wild YT might produce what, 100,000, 1,000,000 eggs in it’s lifespan? An adult Banggai might produce 600 offspring in the same timespan? The fact is, Banggai reproductive biology is such that they are pretty much uniquely less able to handle overharvest. Another fish with similar “problems”? Seahorses. Where are all the wild caught seahores? CITES anyone?

I’ve seen this side of the argument, “why are we still seeing them so cheaply?”, and I have to agree, the buffalo analogy is probably spot on. Same with Passenger Pigeons. Over Exploitation can bring about extinction. With Banggais being EASY to collect, it is quite easy to just wipe out a local population and then move on to the next (IIRC, 3 “local populations” of Banggais in the islands were already wiped out by collection). It is much easier to lower the price of something than to raise it, and there is always downward pressure on WC banggais, which has the doubly negative effect of having downward pressure on CB Banggais produced largely by hobbyists. Thus, hobbyists need to keep on breedin’ Banggais – if the Zebra Plecos are any indication, having Banggia broodstock could prove to be a “windfall” if our WC Banggai supplies dry up.

Even if prices increase it could still be overly collected. Similar to what happened to the sturgeon fish. They were over collected for their caviar eggs so the price went up. But then the few remaining sturgeon become even more valuable and therefore more and more sturgeons were collected.

@ Matt- Im not sure I understand you completely. Are you suggesting that this species be removed from the IUCN Redlist? If so, we couldnt disagree more. These cardinals NEED to be removed from Limbeh as much as Lionfish NEED to be removed from the Caribbean. The vague and banal statement that “they appear to have no ill effects on native populations” is tripe and comical, in and of itself. I would speculate that there is no serious study conclusions, and all that can be seen is that their not eating other fish in front of divers (a la the lionfish). But they MUST be competing with other planctivores. I cannot believe that this ecosystem had an open niche just waiting for Bangaii cardinals to fill, without ecological consequence. Fish arent the only things that are imperiled by introduced fish species. The Cardinals are on the IUCN redlist for same reason the Resplendant Angelfish are: geographically isolated native habitat. No matter how many atricial places these fish are introduced will ever change that.

@ Jake- seriously bro? I, mean, c’mon. Seriously? Did you just really suggest that theres no way that this species would be overcollected? Lets not be so naive as to assume that the entire world shares our desire for ethical and sustainable collection practices. Thats the reality.

@everyone- and please for the sake of my nerves, they are American BISON. Not buffalos. But they are indeed ideal icons for the trademark overexploitation of a species, with almost catastrophic consequences.

I wonder why the Bangai cardinal, a single charismatic species generates more “concern” then the institutional….widespread…. decimation of blue tang, blueface angel and majestic angels by cyanide thruout Indonesia?

Such narrow, selective concern such as this suggests a “penny wise, pound foolish” approach to conservation if ever there was one. If anyone really cared about coral reefs in Indonesia they would find the status of the Bangai cardinal one of the lower concerns now.
Tight, trite and token sells better in trendy, lightweight, knee-jerk environmentalism but doesnt do much to save coral reefs.

Rank order of environmental priority in Indonesia;
1. the cyanide cartel in Bali
2. the cyanide cartel in Jakarta
3 the corrupt Indonesian government and fisheries departments
4. eco orgs that have no problem with any of the above.

Steve